DH Snape Problem - help?
Wednesday, 8 August 2007 12:04 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
siguneYou know, maybe I'll give up ficcing after all. I have reached an all-time low, tormented by the fact that canon contains so many stupid twists that my poor brain doesn't know how to base something decent on this junk. I mean - it is impossible to stick to Potter canon for the simple reason that it contradicts itself, so if you go by one bit, it doesn't gel with another. And the irony is that though Rowling can get away with it, I sort of can't.
Below is a problem I have with Snape's timeline. Any theories that can help me make sense of it and ease the terrible pain in my brain will be very, very much appreciated.
"On a cold, wet night" in 1980 [in 1996 it was sixteen years ago (OotP Chapter 37, Bb edition p. 740)] Dumbledore interviews Sybill Trelawney in the Hog's Head. She makes a prophecy saying that at the end of July of the same year, a boy will be born with "the power to vanquish the Dark Lord".
This part of the prophecy is overheard by Severus Snape, who was "himself [...] seeking a job at that time". (HBP Chapter 25, Bb edition p. 509) Snape is caught eavesdropping, but Dumbledore lets him go and Snape reports what he has heard of the prophecy to Voldemort.
On 31 July 1980, Harry Potter is born to James and Lily, a couple who have thrice defied Voldemort by then.
The next date we have is 24 October 1981, which is the approximate day on which the Fidelius Charm is cast over James, Lily and Harry at Godric's Hollow, with Peter Pettigrew as their Secret Keeper (PoA Chapter 10). This is a result of a previous meeting of Snape with Dumbledore, during which Snape told the headmaster that Voldemort has singled the Potters out and that they must be protected (DH Chapter 33, Bb edition pp. 542-4).
Pettigrew spills the secret to Voldemort. Then, on 31 October 1981, Voldemort goes to Godric's Hollow, kills Lily and James, and makes Harry into an accidental Horcrux, losing his own body in the process.
Now, here come the problems I have with Snape's timeline - they are all caused by the elaboration of Snape's conversation with Dumbledore that we got in DH's "The Prince's Tale".
In OotP's Chapter Seventeen, "Educational Decree Number Twenty-Four", which takes place in the autumn of 1995, Snape is asked by Umbridge just how long he has been teaching at Hogwarts. His reply: "Fourteen years". (Bb edition p. 323) That means he started to teach at Hogwarts in 1981, right? Presumably he would have started teaching from 1 September of that year, too.
On 1 September 1981, Voldemort is still in full power; in fact things don't look to good for his enemies. Snape taking a job at Hogwarts would therefore look odd to old snake-eyes; but in HBP, Snape explains that he was sent there by Voldemort himself, with the purpose of spying on Dumbledore (HBP Chapter 2). This is easily verifiable for Bella - she can just ask her Voldie whether it's true - so you'd think that could hardly be a lie. Also, Voldemort doesn't feel inclined to kill Snape on finding out that he has spent all those years at Dumbledore's side.
Logic demands that if the Fidelius Charm over the Potters is cast on 24 October 1981, Snape's discovery of the fact that it is the Potters Voldemort is after has to be a recent one - it must have happened in October.
Now look at the conversation we get in Deathly Hallows. It has to take place in the autumn as the trees are leafless:
'Don't kill me!'
'That was not my intention.'
Any sound of Dumbledore Apparating had been drowned by the sound of the wind in the branches. He stood before Snape with his robes whipping around him, and his face was illuminated from below in the light cast by his wand.
'Well, Severus? What message does Lord Voldemort have for me?'
'No - no message - I'm here on my own account!'
Snape was wringing his hands; he looked a little mad, with his straggling, black hair flying around him.
'I - I come with a warning - no, a request - please -'
Dumbledore flicked his wand. Though leaves and branches still flew through the night air around them, silence fell on the sport where he and Snape faced each other.
'What request could a Death Eater make of me?'
This passage makes it obvious that Snape's defection from Voldemort and his message that Lily Evans is in danger occur at the same point. He is a Death Eater (fully expecting to be killed on sight) coming to Dumbledore with information, not Dumbledore's spy reporting what he has discovered (as we all assumed before).
This means that either:
- Dumbledore knowingly hired a Death Eater; or he hired Snape, somehow found out he was a Death Eater, but didn't do anything about him (in any case, as![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
subtle_science has pointed out, this doesn't sound like an employer talking to his employee);
or
- Dumbledore only hired Snape after what happened at Godric's Hollow, which means that Voldemort cannot possibly have ordered Snape to take a job at Hogwarts;
or
- the scene takes place in 1980 and Dumbledore has twiddled his thumbs for a whole year until the idea of the Fidelius Charm occurs to him.
Really, what is a poor fic writer to do with such contradicting source material? I never wanted to go AU, but at moments like these it seems that I'll be forced to do so just so the story would make some bloody sense.
*screams*
Below is a problem I have with Snape's timeline. Any theories that can help me make sense of it and ease the terrible pain in my brain will be very, very much appreciated.
"On a cold, wet night" in 1980 [in 1996 it was sixteen years ago (OotP Chapter 37, Bb edition p. 740)] Dumbledore interviews Sybill Trelawney in the Hog's Head. She makes a prophecy saying that at the end of July of the same year, a boy will be born with "the power to vanquish the Dark Lord".
This part of the prophecy is overheard by Severus Snape, who was "himself [...] seeking a job at that time". (HBP Chapter 25, Bb edition p. 509) Snape is caught eavesdropping, but Dumbledore lets him go and Snape reports what he has heard of the prophecy to Voldemort.
On 31 July 1980, Harry Potter is born to James and Lily, a couple who have thrice defied Voldemort by then.
The next date we have is 24 October 1981, which is the approximate day on which the Fidelius Charm is cast over James, Lily and Harry at Godric's Hollow, with Peter Pettigrew as their Secret Keeper (PoA Chapter 10). This is a result of a previous meeting of Snape with Dumbledore, during which Snape told the headmaster that Voldemort has singled the Potters out and that they must be protected (DH Chapter 33, Bb edition pp. 542-4).
Pettigrew spills the secret to Voldemort. Then, on 31 October 1981, Voldemort goes to Godric's Hollow, kills Lily and James, and makes Harry into an accidental Horcrux, losing his own body in the process.
Now, here come the problems I have with Snape's timeline - they are all caused by the elaboration of Snape's conversation with Dumbledore that we got in DH's "The Prince's Tale".
In OotP's Chapter Seventeen, "Educational Decree Number Twenty-Four", which takes place in the autumn of 1995, Snape is asked by Umbridge just how long he has been teaching at Hogwarts. His reply: "Fourteen years". (Bb edition p. 323) That means he started to teach at Hogwarts in 1981, right? Presumably he would have started teaching from 1 September of that year, too.
On 1 September 1981, Voldemort is still in full power; in fact things don't look to good for his enemies. Snape taking a job at Hogwarts would therefore look odd to old snake-eyes; but in HBP, Snape explains that he was sent there by Voldemort himself, with the purpose of spying on Dumbledore (HBP Chapter 2). This is easily verifiable for Bella - she can just ask her Voldie whether it's true - so you'd think that could hardly be a lie. Also, Voldemort doesn't feel inclined to kill Snape on finding out that he has spent all those years at Dumbledore's side.
Logic demands that if the Fidelius Charm over the Potters is cast on 24 October 1981, Snape's discovery of the fact that it is the Potters Voldemort is after has to be a recent one - it must have happened in October.
Now look at the conversation we get in Deathly Hallows. It has to take place in the autumn as the trees are leafless:
'Don't kill me!'
'That was not my intention.'
Any sound of Dumbledore Apparating had been drowned by the sound of the wind in the branches. He stood before Snape with his robes whipping around him, and his face was illuminated from below in the light cast by his wand.
'Well, Severus? What message does Lord Voldemort have for me?'
'No - no message - I'm here on my own account!'
Snape was wringing his hands; he looked a little mad, with his straggling, black hair flying around him.
'I - I come with a warning - no, a request - please -'
Dumbledore flicked his wand. Though leaves and branches still flew through the night air around them, silence fell on the sport where he and Snape faced each other.
'What request could a Death Eater make of me?'
This passage makes it obvious that Snape's defection from Voldemort and his message that Lily Evans is in danger occur at the same point. He is a Death Eater (fully expecting to be killed on sight) coming to Dumbledore with information, not Dumbledore's spy reporting what he has discovered (as we all assumed before).
This means that either:
- Dumbledore knowingly hired a Death Eater; or he hired Snape, somehow found out he was a Death Eater, but didn't do anything about him (in any case, as
subtle_science has pointed out, this doesn't sound like an employer talking to his employee);or
- Dumbledore only hired Snape after what happened at Godric's Hollow, which means that Voldemort cannot possibly have ordered Snape to take a job at Hogwarts;
or
- the scene takes place in 1980 and Dumbledore has twiddled his thumbs for a whole year until the idea of the Fidelius Charm occurs to him.
Really, what is a poor fic writer to do with such contradicting source material? I never wanted to go AU, but at moments like these it seems that I'll be forced to do so just so the story would make some bloody sense.
*screams*
